la_belle_laide: (ShinRa slut)
[personal profile] la_belle_laide
Okay, so lookit: if you're one of these "zzzOMGS MCR doing the theme song from Final Fantaseee!!111" then please don't bother. I try not to be all "I was here first" or whatever, and if you're discovering FFVII for the first time, hey, that's great! But, discover Final Fantasy VII. Not just Advent Children because some LA raaaawkstah did a song that bumped the original ending song. >_<

I realize that the original game is very hard to come by these days, and it doesn't play on PS3 (WTF?) but there has got to be a way to download it and still play it on your PC or something, right? Right? Don't be a Compilation whore. If you're going to be a fan of the story, play the damn original.

If you're a FFVII geek and you want to show Advent Children to your friends, but you have freaking no clue how to sum up the entire plot and its subplots without skipping this and going back to that and then changing so and so, then maybe something like this can help you keep track. I know this because I have attempted to show AC to friends and myself gotten completely lost trying to explain the plot. Or maybe you want to write a fic and you want a reminder or two of what happened when.

But really I just wrote it because I wanted to. :)



Believe it or not, I also made a two part, twenty-minutes-all-told video recap of the game.


PART ONE:


PART TWO:



Keep in mind always that all of this is up for interpretation, and yours might be different from mine! Or if I made a total mistake, feel free to let me know and I will correct it. ^_^ I am open to all sorts of conversations about how other people saw these events.

When Square-Soft released FFVII back in late 1997, they probably didn't have any idea exactly what they were getting into. They wanted the newest installment of Final Fantasy to be popular and successful, of course, but I doubt they set out to make a masterpiece. Which, I think, is exactly why it is a masterpiece; a spiritual cyberpunk tragedy told in the medium of an RPG.

The story takes place on a planet known as, well, "The Planet." Its themes are environmental; science vs. nature; the tenuous and mutable nature of reality and how belief affects it; deceit and self-deceit; preservation and sacrifice; and the hazy areas between "good guys" and "bad guys."

Truth is an illusion.

Battles are fought not only with weapons and skill, but with Materia, a condensed form of Mako with specific powers. Mako comes from the Lifestream: a green, glowing, physical construct which surrounds and permeates the Planet; a kind of Planetery Qi. There are hypotheses that Mako and Lifestream are made up of human consciousness that has left the Planet, or a "world soul," or things like that.

Some Materia has the ability to summon creatures of great destruction in order to fight enemies.

The Planet is in jeopardy. The people are ruled by the greedy ShinRa corporation. ShinRa uses Mako reactors to suck up the Mako from the Planet to fuel the world; and the Planet is beginning to run dry. President ShinRa is at the head of the mega-corporation, and seems to be the the de facto president of the entire world.


The first graphics you see in the game--stars and space, some space, a lot of stars, and some space, and then some stars in space--really don't say much (on the surface) other than, "Hey, lookit! We can do 3D these days!"

Then the "camera" pans down and we see a girl with a pink bow in her hair, surrounded by a green aura. There are white-green sparks flying around her face. It all looks kinds of peaceful and mystical. There's a graceful bit of music: three sweet notes to begin the scene as the girl looks into the camera. Then the camera pans out, and as the character stands up, we see that she's standing in an alley, looking at a malfunctioning circuit box that is throwing off green sparks. With a basket of flowers in her hand, she walks out of the alley and onto the street, where she's cut off by a speeding car. Above the street, a sign advertises a play called "Loveless." The camera pans back further. Finally we see that the flower girl is in a kind of enclosed, covered city, surrounded around the top by seven buildings spewing green smoke. It looks polluted and claustrophobic.

Welcome to Midgar, the city of seven sectors, where rich people live above the enclosed space, on the "plates," and the poor people live below them, literally where the sun don't shine.

Pan back into a different section of the city now, flashing every few seconds to the wheels of a speeding train. When we get into the innards of this part of the city, the train pulls into the station and stops. A spikey-headed, badly rendered blond guy with big blocks for arms leaps off of the top of the train towards his first mission. Then you spend a good few minutes figuring out how to make him run.

So forget the flower girl for right now. Start with the crazy, spikey-headed, badly rendered blonde.

Cloud Strife, 21 year old ex SOLDIER, mercenary for hire. SOLDIER is ShinRa's elite army: men and women exposed to large amounts of Mako in order to enhance their abilities. Some are showered with it until their eyes glow, giving rise to the phrase, "Mako eyes." The highest rank in SOLDIER is "First Class." They are the elite of the elite; the unbeatable ones. In ShinRa's heyday, they were heroes.

But why would a 21 year old be an ex SOLDIER?

Cloud has joined a rebel group known as Avalanche, who are fighting against ShinRa, and his first mission with Avalanche is to blow up a Mako reactor. Avalanche's leader, Barret Wallace, is a 35 year old man with a gun grafted onto his missing arm. He lost his arm in a firefight with ShinRa years ago. He has an adopted daughter, Marlene, whose father was Barret's best friend, a man named Dyne who was in the same firefight.

During the bombing mission, Cloud mentions that he knows his way around a Mako reactor. After all, he was a SOLDIER. Although during the mission, he acts distracted and strange.

After the mission we go to a bar called Tifa's Seventh Heaven in Sector Seven of Midgar: Avalanche's headquarters. There we meet Marlene, a girl of around 3 or 4. And running the bar--an active member of Avalanche--is Tifa Lockhart, 20. (Corrected. ^_^ ) She is Cloud's childhood friend. They grew up together in Nibelheim.

Cloud's and Tifa's hometown of Nibelheim was torched by the legendary SOLDIER First Class Sephiroth, after he went on a mission to check out a malfunctioning Mako reactor, learned something about his past there, and went insane. Sephiroth disappeared after that and is presumed dead.

Cloud seems to have amnesia of sorts, and so far all we know of him is that he grew up with Tifa, he joined SOLDIER at a young age, and he is distant and cold to everyone.

And also, he has "episodes" - seizures, hears voices, and has flashes of abstract memories. Of what, we don't yet know.

During the second mission, blowing up another Mako reactor, Avalanche are trapped by president ShinRa himself, who sends in a machine to kill Avalanche off. Avalanche destroy the machine, but the bridge they are all on breaks, and Cloud is left dangling from the Mako reactor, way above Sector Five. Finally the Mako reactor explodes, and Cloud falls through the metal plate into the darkness.

He wakes up on the floor of a church, and there he meets Aeris Gainsborough, 22, who is tending her flowers. Aha: The Flower Girl from the opening sequence! Hers are the only flowers that grow under the metal plate, and she sells them. Quickly enough, we find out that Aeris is being chased by ShinRa's black ops specialty group: the Turks. Reno of the Turks comes in with his henchmen to kidnap her, but Cloud helps Aeris escape. She asks him to be her bodyguard. It's clear right away that Aeris is interested in Cloud as more than just a bodyguard. We suspect her interest in him is romantic. Is it?

On his way out, Reno notes that he recognizes Cloud's eyes as Mako eyes.

We later find out that ShinRa is interested in Aeris because she is what's known as an Ancient, or "Cetra," which means that she's descended from a line of people who were the first to inhabit the Planet. They also had the power to converse with the Planet. ShinRa wants her because they think she can lead them to the Promised Land, to which supposedly only Ancients could lead the way. ShinRa's main interest in the mythical Promised Land, however, is the fact that it's bubbling over with Mako that they can use for fuel.

However, the head of ShinRa's Science Department, professor Hojo, has another interest in Aeris. He's been studying Ancients for years, and also kidnapped Aeris' mother Ifalna many years before. Aeris' father and Ifalna's husband, we later find out, was Professor Gast, who had been working on the studies with Hojo, unaware that Hojo would turn against him and try to kidnap his wife and daughter. Hojo killed Gast, but not before Gast hid Aeris. After Ifalna died, leaving Aeris at the train station, Aeris was found by Elmyra Gainsborough, who then raised her.

There have been attempts to kidnap Aeris since she was little. She has been under ShinRa's almost constant surveillance, mostly by the man who would later become the field commander of the Turks: Tseng. Tseng, we find out, was actually friendly with Aeris, and seems to never have had the heart to go through with actually kidnapping her. As Aeris grew up, Tseng seems to have fallen in love, or at least in fascination with her. (We only know this because Reno and Rude--another Turk and Reno's beffie-- discuss their crushes at one point, and Reno tells Rude that Tseng has a thing for Aeris. Rude admits that he has a crush on Tifa. O_O )

Cloud and Aeris talk about Materia, and she mentions that she keeps White Materia with her. It was given to her by her mother. She says that the White Materia is useless. She insists that it does nothing.

Meanwhile, as Cloud and Aeris are getting to know each other, they see Tifa go by on a cart heading towards Wall Market. Tifa is trying to infiltrate the home of ShinRa informant Don Corneo. Don Corneo is also a pimp and he runs a whorehouse. Only pretty women can get to him, and while Aeris can get into his home, Cloud can't. And they have to help Tifa, so clearly there is only one thing to do.

In this section, you must trade and barter your way to getting all of the right items for Cloud's full-drag escapade: blond wig, shiny dress, sexy underwear, sexy cologne and a tiara. Infiltrate the Honey Bee Inn, where burlesque girls dressed as bees will put makeup on Cloud's face. While there, you can look into different rooms and spy on President ShinRa playing some kind of perverted role-play with some of his underlings (a game which seems to foreshadow future events.) You can also spy on (what could only be) another noteworthy ShinRa employee's parents trying to do their thing in a fancy room that their son rented for them. This character, Reeve, ShinRa's Head of Urban Development, is the guy who designed Midgar. He will have a much bigger role down the road so keep your eyes peeled for him.

During this section--although before he is in drag--Cloud gets picked up by a group of men who want him to bathe with them (you can,) and join their "young bubby's group." Unfortunately, Cloud chooses this moment to have another seizure, leading to much physical weirdness involving him and this group of spandex-clad muscle-men.

No one said this game was anything other than "not right."

Anyway, play your cards right and Don Corneo will pick Cloud as his "bride" for the evening, leading to an insane bedroom romp sequence, and Cloud's best line of dialog: "Whatever YOU want, Daddy!"

They find out their information from the Don: ShinRa plans to blow up the support pillar over Sector Seven, and blame Avalanche for the destruction! They race back to Midgar to find that the mission is already almost complete. On top of the pillar they find Reno of the Turks. Reno carries out President ShinRa's order and Sector Seven is destroyed. (Why did Midgar get the works? That’s nobody’s business but the Turks.)

Also, Tseng has finally captured Aeris. He is bitchslapping her in his helicopter before fleeing with her to ShinRa's headquarters. She manages to inform Barret that Marlene is safe from the destruction.

Avalanche goes to ShinRa headquarters to rescue Aeris. While they're there, they find Hojo preparing to do an experiment on her. Also captured with her is a lionesque (or perhaps canid?) sentient, intelligent animal labeled Red XIII. (His age is given as 50 something.) His real name is Nanaki. What is very disturbing, yet bears mentioning, is that Hojo is trying to create a long-lived "breed" of Ancient, and that Red XIII's rare species is extremely long-lived, upwards of a few hundred years, and he has put Aeris and Red XIII in a tank together.

Hojo is about as depraved a character as you will find in this series.

In the lab, we get our first look at Jenova: a headless, humanoid specimen in a tank. The sight of her triggers a pretty decent seizure in our hero Cloud.

Avalanche succeed in releasing both Aeris and Red XIII from their tank, but are all captured and put into cells. The next night, their cell doors are mysteriously unlocked. (Red XIII / Nanaki decides to join with Avalanche, but only until they reach his hometown of Cosmo Canyon,) and together they all begin their escape. On their way out, they find the hallways awash with fresh blood. They follow the trail, and eventually find President Shinra dead behind his desk, and the murder weapon sticking out of him is one that is familiar to Cloud.

It is Sephiroth's legendary katana, the Masamune. A ShinRa employee insists that he saw Sephiroth with his own eyes. But, isn't Sephiroth dead? How could this be? More on that later.

Old Man ShinRa's son Rufus takes over the corporation. Unfortunately, he seems even more ruthless than his father.

Avalanche goes to a town called Kalm, chasing after Sephiroth. While there, Cloud tells Sephiroth's story to the others:

Five years ago, Cloud, Sephiroth, and two other infantrymen (all SOLDIERs under First Class wore helmets that concealed their faces, so we don't see who the two infantrymen were,) went on the mission to Nibelheim, to inspect a malfunctioning Mako reactor. Their tour guide up the mountain to the reactor is a young girl who is familiar with the path: Tifa Lockhart. (In re-telling the story, Cloud remembers visiting Tifa's house, but we never see him interact with her there, and Tifa seems very uncomfortable with his recollection of events.) When they got to the Mako reactor, they discovered a bunch of mutants and monsters in Mako pods, all labeled "The Jenova Project." Sephiroth, who has always been told that his mother's name was Jenova, puts this all together and realizes that he has probably come from these experiments, and it begins to explain why he's so different. He goes crazy seeing all of these mutants, realizing he is one, and runs out of the reactor. He runs to ShinRa's Nibelheim mansion, where Hojo and Gast used to work together and run a lab, and finds the files on himself. The files tell him that Jenova was an Ancient, and that he was more or less created like Frankenstein's monster, than he was actually born to her. The files also tell about how the Ancients are the rightful owners of the Planet and how all of mankind is destroying the Planet, just as surely as they wiped out the Ancients. He stays up all night and reads his own classified files.

(However, Cloud has since found out that Hojo’s and Gast’s studies were wrong: Jenova was not truly an Ancient. Jenova was actually a mutation virus from outer space, what the Ancients called the "Crisis From The Sky." In fact, Jenova destroyed most of the Ancients.)

The next day Cloud finds Sephiroth completely insane in the basement of ShinRa mansion. Sephiroth goes running out of the mansion saying "I'm going to see my mother." Cloud follows him back to the reactor, where Sephiroth finally goes past the pods of mutants (really just pre-Sephiroth experiments gone wrong,) and finally finds Jenova: the body of what is obviously a female kind of thing, hidden behind a big metal-plated facade. Sephiroth rips the facade away, finds the body of Jenova, takes her damn HEAD, and runs out of the reactor, cutting down everything that's in his way. This includes Tifa Lockhart, her father, and another SOLDIER who challenges and injures Sephiroth. He torches the entire town, killing Cloud's mother as well. Tifa and Cloud are apparently the only survivors. (Although we do later find out that Tifa's martial arts teacher Zangan survived as well.)

Sephiroth disappeared, was presumed dead, and never came back. (<---noteworthy)

Now, five years later, Sephiroth has come back. (huh?) No one knows how. There are a bunch of black cloaked Sephiroth CLONES running around Nibelheim, half sentient, raving about a "reunion" and "becoming one with Sephiroth." (For the purposes of this summary, until Sephiroth does come back into the story, just assume that when I say "Sephiroth" I mean one of his clones.)

The group, following rumors of a man in a long black coat with a tremendous sword, go after him. (And, WTF? Did they clone Masamune, too? Anyway.) They cross the Mythril Mines, and find that the Turks are one step ahead of them. Tseng is there, and Reno is gone (injured by Cloud in their fight atop the Sector Seven pillar is the official story.) Taking his place is rookie Elena, who slips up in front of Avalanche as to where they are chasing Sephiroth. Tseng sees Aeris there, and lets her walk. In this scene we find out that Elena has an obvious crush on Tseng.

They chase Sephiroth and eventually find him on a ShinRa boat out of Junon Harbor to Costa Del Sol. Sephiroth babbles about taking over the Planet, and the team fights with a form of Jenova and defeats her (it?) and Sephiroth escapes once again.

Chasing the rumors, Avalanche goes through North Corel, Barret's home town. In this sub-plot, we learn the story of how Barret came to adopt Marlene, and how he and his best friend Dyne (Marlene's father,) lost their arms. As it happens, in the beginning Barret supported ShinRa, against the wishes of the rest of Corel, which was a mining town. Until the vampy Scarlet (Head of ShinRa's Weapons Development) razes the town, which costs Barret and Dyne their wives, and starts the firefight that will cost them their arms. This is part of why Barret is so passionate about fighting ShinRa.

Close to North Corel is a Disneyworld-like place called the Gold Saucer. Cloud and company stop there, and there they meet a robotic cat who rides on a stuffed Mog. The cat is called Cait Sith. Cait Sith is a fortune telling machine as well, and he immediately joins Avalanche for reasons we can't even fathom. BUT! If we looked veeeeerry carefully, we saw this Mog-perched robot cat somewhere else. It was at the Honeybee in, in a room with that ShinRa employee's parents. Hmm.

From there they head to Gongaga Village, and there find out that Aeris's first boyfriend was from there. His name was Zack, and he was also SOLDIER, first class. He had spikey black hair and carried a Buster Sword just like Cloud's. Zack disappeared five years ago and no one has heard from him since. Anytime anyone mentions the words "SOLDIER FIRST CLASS," and often when Zack is mentioned, Cloud has one of his little mini-seizures. Which is odd, considering he tells Aeris that he didn't know Zack.

Reno and Rude are there as well, also chasing Sephiroth. Avalanche once again fight the Turks, and everyone lives to tell about it.

From there they go to Cosmo canyon, Nanaki's hometown. They meet his grandfather Bugenhagen, who has an observatory and an elaborate planetarium sort of thing where you can learn about Materia.

Nanaki also has his own backstory. Years ago (and remember: Nanaki is a teenager for his lifespan but is actually in his forties or perhaps fifties,) Cosmo Canyon was invaded. Nanaki's father Seto disappeared from the battle and his mother was killed. Nanaki always assumed that his father was a coward who had run away. After many trials, he learns the truth: that his father Seto ran to the mountaintop to defend Cosmo Canyon, where he was shot with arrows that turned him to stone. Learning of his father's fate, Nanaki decides to continue traveling with Avalanche, so that he can do his share of protecting others as well.

After learning about the fate of Seto, as well as some lessons on the Planet and Materia, Avalanche finally head back to Nibelheim. Cloud and Tifa expect to find it in ruins, as it was after Sephiroth torched it. But to their surprise everything is as it was before the fire five years earlier. (Minus a few key townspeople, most importantly Tifa's father and Cloud's mother.) Even more disturbing is the fact that no one in town seems to remember anything about any fire. There are more Sephiroth clones walking around babbling about this "reunion."

In Nibelheim, they visit the ShinRa mansion. Locked in the basement in a coffin since around the time of the birth of Sephiroth, (which would be around thirty years ago,) is Vincent Valentine. (Officially his age is listed as 27, though one has to assume that 27 is just when he stopped aging. He is probably actually 57.) He used to be a Turk, but he fell in love with the woman he was assigned to protect. Her name was Lucrezia, and she was a scientist working with Hojo. Hojo was also "in love" with Lucrezia and she was (strangely) torn between him and Vincent. Hojo was jealous, and he shot Vincent, then kept him alive for his experiments. Among his many other guessed-at cruelties, he injected Vincent with Jenova cells. As a result of Hojo's tampering, Vincent can change into all sorts of monsters. He has been sleeping in the coffin, enduring nightmares as "punishment for his sin."

Later on we will find out that Hojo and Lucrezia had a son. While she was pregnant, Lucrezia offered herself and her unborn son to Hojo for experiments. Hojo began "creating" this life-form in Lucrezia, injecting the unborn child with Mako and Jenova cells. Before she gave birth, Lucrezia became ill, and after she gave birth, Hojo took the boy and used him in more Jenova experiments. He was trying to create the perfect SOLDIER, more god than man, created to be the most powerful person on the Planet. Who could that son have been? That's an easy one. ^_^

Vincent's punishment is self-imposed. His sin, in his mind, was not being able to stop Lucrezia from deciding to go through with the experiment. Cloud tells him that they are chasing Sephiroth, and when he mentions Hojo's name, Vincent is interested. He leaves his coffin and joins Avalanche.

Together they all head to Rocket Town, a town that was supposed to be the site of ShinRa's first rocket launch into space. There they meet a man who's now a pilot, but who was supposed to be the first man in space: Cid Highwind, 32. He was ShinRa's astronaut, but because of one of Cid's assistants (Shera, the woman he now lives with and treats really badly!) taking too long to thoroughly check the rocket, he had to cancel the launch. In the time between the failed launch and what was supposed to be the next launch, the ShinRa corporation pulled the funding for the space program. The rocket is still there, hence the name Rocket Town. Now Rufus ShinRa is back in town, thinking about re-investing in his father's aborted plan. Cid Highwind wants that more than anything.

However, Palmer from ShinRa finds out that Avalanche is in town, and ends up fighing with them. To escape ShinRa, Avalanche needs Cid's plane, the Tiny Bronco. Cid Highwind joins with them and they all leave Rocket Town together.

Traveling through the fields outside of a place called Wutai, Cloud and company meet a 16 year old ninja named Yuffie Kisaragi. She's also a Materia thief. She also joins Avalanche, but once they all get to her hometown of Wutai, she ends up stealing their Materia. While chasing Yuffie through Wutai, Avalanche meet up with the Turks again, who are on vacation there. Yuffie and Elena are both kidnapped by Don Corneo, the owner of the brothel from earlier in the game. Avalanche and the Turks team up to rescue them, vow to work together and trust each other for this one mission, rescue their party members, then go their separate ways again. Reno lets Corneo fall of a cliff, and Yuffie and Elena are rescued. Yuffie gives back the Materia, and stays with Avalanche. (The reason she stole it is because Wutai has no Materia. Years ago ShinRa waged war on Wutai, leaving them with nothing but tourist attractions as their source of income and national pride. This was the war in which Sephiroth became a hero, for resolving conflicts with as few casualties as possible.)

Cloud has heard of a special Materia called the Black Materia, which has regenerative / restorative (and destructive) powers beyond imagination. This must be what Sephiroth is after. In order to get it, they need something called a Keystone, which is on display at the Gold Saucer, so they head back there.

At the Gold Saucer, they get the keystone, only to be betrayed by Cait Sith. It ends up that Cait Sith has been working for ShinRa all the while. Tseng of the Turks sends a message to Avalanche telling them that he's taken Marlene, and Elmyra, (Aeris' foster mother,) and they won't be hurt as long as they keep Cait Sith with them. We now find out that the ShinRa employee speaking through the robotic cat is having a change of heart. He wants to be one of the good guys. Everyone in Avalanche knows he's the one who's been leaking secrets to Tseng, and they have no choice but to take him along with them. He asks them to trust him anyway. Like morons, they do.

With Cait Sith tagging along, Avalanche chases the Turks to the Temple of the Ancients, where the Black Materia is supposed to be.

Once there, they find that Tseng is already in the Temple. Tseng is nearly dead, having been butchered by a Sephiroth clone. He hands the Keystone to Avalanche, tells them how to use it to get into the Temple, and tells them to keep the Black Materia from Sephiroth. Aeris is only vaguely emotional about Tseng's death, (OR IS HE etc...) even though they've known each other for a long time. She could help him, but she chooses not to.

Inside, they find out what Jenova already knows: that there is a way to summon a giant meteor to all but obliterate the Planet. This is what Sephiroth apparently wants, and also why he wants the Black Materia. Then, they find out that the Temple itself IS the Black Materia. The only way to actually win the Black Materia is to shrink the Temple down by solving a puzzle from the inside.

Cait Sith, being a robot, offers to stay behind and do it. He apologizes for his duplicity, and Avalanche leave the Temple, leaving Cait Sith to solve the puzzle. The Temple then shrinks and becomes the Black Materia, and it is in Cloud's possession.

Cloud begins to freak out. Once he has the Black Materia, Sephiroth appears and begins to control him like a puppet. And then, in what is maybe the most disturbing turn of events in the game, Cloud throws Aeris to the ground, jumps on her, and beats the crap out of her. Then he falls into a hallucination, with no idea about why he’s just done what he’s done.

Cloud has a dream that Aeris tells him that it's all right, she forgives him, and she's on her way to the City of the Ancients. She tells him, "Then, I'll be going now. I'll come back when it's all over." He wakes up to find that Aeris is gone.

Now Avalanche, with Cait Sith II, is on the trail of Aeris. Aeris understands that as a true Ancient, she can pray for Holy, which is the only thing that can stop Sephiroth's Meteor. This is the use of the White Materia!

Cloud and the others find Aeris praying at the altar, in a trance. Cloud freaks out again and raises his sword to kill her. Why would Cloud try to kill Aeris? We know that he is troubled, that he is unable to control himself, that he is often unaware of his surroundings or even of who he is. But to kill Aeris? The only thing that stops him from going through with it is the fact that the members of his party call out to him and stop him. Otherwise, he would have cut her in half.

Cloud seems unaware of what he was about to do. Aeris comes out of her trance and smiles at Cloud.

In what was maybe the most shocking video game moment--at least at its time--Sephiroth flies down from the rafters and skewers her. Every gamer in the world cries when the White Materia falls from her hair clangs on the steps and the music plays. (To reiterate: The real Sephiroth is still dead, as we will later find out. A clone actually killed Aeris. Cloud very nearly killed her himself. Who is in control here? Who is in control of Cloud? Is it Sephiroth? Or is Sephiroth being controlled as well? What do Sephiroth and Cloud have in common?)

Sephiroth tells Cloud that he can't be sad, because he doesn't have any emotions. He begins the sentence, "Because, Cloud, you are...."

And as often is the case in these battles, Jenova shows up and finishes the sentence for him:

"Because you are a puppet." (It is worth mentioning at this point that Sephiroth and Jenova together are telling him he is a puppet. But what might be more noteworthy is how Jenova always follows Sephiroth, always finishing his thoughts for him. Or is she beginning them?)

Avalanche fight her together, except for Aeris--clearly--who is dead. They give her a funeral, (well, Cloud lets her sink into the water,) and hope that she has prayed enough to summon Holy to counter Meteor.

Cloud is more confused than ever. He is afraid of who he is, afraid of his actions, afraid to go on. But now he wants revenge. And so together, they all continue chasing Sephiroth.

They head north past the Icicle area, trying to get Sephiroth before Meteor comes. Sephiroth's plan is that Meteor will make such a big hole in the Planet that he'll be able to take all of the Mako for himself and become a god.

In the mountains, ShinRa is once again one step ahead of Avalanche. Rufus, Hojo, and Scarlet are there. ShinRa are also still looking for the Promised Land. However, instead of Sephiroth or the Promised Land, they find the first WEAPON. WEAPON is something that the Planet creates by itself, to defend itself, mostly from Jenova. Sensing Jenova's revived will, WEAPON begins to awaken, and will destroy everything, people included, if it's not stopped.

Hojo sees Cloud there and tells him that he is nothing more than a failed Sephiroth clone, and that's why Sephiroth can control him so easily. Sephiroth (or his clone) has also taunted Cloud with this information, saying that he is nothing but a conglomerate of Mako, Jenova's will, and Tifa's memories. Hojo asks to see Cloud's number tattoo, and Cloud says he doesn't have one. Hojo tells him that's because he is a failed experiment, and too weak to merit a number. Tifa falls to her knees; she seems repentant and desperate. Why? We're not yet sure. Cloud apologizes profusely to everyone, and then he turns his back on his friends and begs Hojo to give him a number.

Cloud then gets sucked into a huge tree in the mountains, once again carrying the Black Materia. Voices begin to call him again, and he is doing all sorts of weird upside down walking things, ignoring gravity, and generally going crazy. In the tree, inside a Mako / Materia crystal, is the real body of Sephiroth. This is where the real Sephiroth enters the story. Everything they saw before that was nothing but clones.

Unable to control himself, Cloud slips the Black Materia into the Mako crystal where Sephiroth's body is. The materia brings the body back to life.

With Sephiroth awake (and the Jenova cells inside him awake,) WEAPON also awakens and begins to rampage. Everyone escapes the first WEAPON, but Tifa is injured as they all fly away in Cid's airship, the Highwind. She wakes up seven days later to find that she and Barret are ShinRa's prisoners. ShinRa plans to execute them live on television, in the gas chamber.

And in the meantime, Sephiroth has summoned Meteor.

Tifa and Scarlet--who seems to have a soft spot for Rufus ShinRa--have a fight outside of the gas chamber as Tifa escapes. Tifa has escaped the gas chamber with the help of Cait Sith, who attacks Scarlet with sleeping gas, saying "I really hate that broad."

After Tifa escapes, WEAPON catches up with them. ShinRa fights WEAPON this time, using Scarlet's creation, a weapon called the Sister Ray. However, during this battle, the ground is blown open and Cloud falls into the Lifestream. He really can't catch a break, can he?

Avalanche searches for Cloud, and they finally find him in a hospital in Mideel. Cloud is wheelchair-bound and incoherent. Being in the Lifestream has given him severe Mako poisoning and he can't remember anything and he can't walk or speak. Tifa decides to stay with him.

Another WEAPON attacks, and the remaining members of Avalanche fight it, but Mideel is destroyed and the ground is blown open yet again, revealing the Lifestream underneath. Cloud and Tifa both fall into the Lifestream together this time.

In it, they find each other. Cloud is split up into three different personalities, with his consciousness visually writhing above all of them. Tifa realizes that he is searching for his true self, his past. She must help Cloud find out who he really is. It's time for the truth.

They begin by going over their childhood memories. Cloud was fond of Tifa, but she had her own group of friends. When her mother died, Tifa, in her grief, went over the mountains to search for her. Cloud followed her. She fell from a bridge and went into a coma. The adults blamed Cloud, and Cloud blamed himself as well. After Tifa recovered, Cloud called Tifa out to the wishing well one night. They were both still children; around 14 and 15 years old. Cloud told Tifa that he was going to join SOLDIER and become a hero like Sephiroth. (He didn't admit to her back then that he was doing it for her, to be famous in order to gain her attention. "A sealed up secret wish.") Tifa asked Cloud to promise that if she is ever in trouble, he will come to her aid.

This is a memory that they share, so how can Cloud's memories be made up? How can their entire reality be someone else's construct?

Yet, why is Tifa so afraid to talk about what happened at Nibelheim five years ago?

Tifa finally tells Cloud the truth: that she never actually saw him return to Nibelheim on the ill-fated trip with Sephiroth. All the while, Cloud has believed that he was there with Sephiroth, as his second in command, as SOLDIER First Class. Tifa had been too afraid and confused to tell him that she never even saw him there.

Tifa wonders, though: if Cloud wasn't really there, then how does he know everything that happened? How does he know every last detail?

The answer is simple: he was actually one of the infantrymen, and he was wearing the face-concealing helmet. He was on the mission, he did see Tifa, he did go to the reactor. But had been ashamed to tell Tifa that he never made First Class, so he never showed his face.

The story that Cloud told everyone was actually Zack's story. ZACK was SOLDIER, First Class. ZACK was Sephiroth's friend. ZACK carried the Buster Sword.

What really happened at the reactor that day five years ago was this: After Sephiroth torched Nibelheim and ran up to meet his mother, slicing and dicing Tifa on his way, Cloud found Tifa injured and helped her, (fulfilling his promise to come to her aid,) although she doesn't remember it. Then he ran after Sephiroth. Cloud was 16 at this time, untrained and weak, but he was pissed off, and he challenged Sephiroth anyway. Cloud managed to stab Sephiroth, who turned around and stabbed Cloud right back, impaling him on the Masamune. Sephiroth then lifted him up in the air with the sword and told him, "Don't push your luck." Somehow, Cloud was able to will himself back down, pull himself further along the blade of the katana, and throw Sephiroth off a bridge and into a river of Lifestream below.

Cloud killed Sephiroth five years ago.

After battling Sephiroth, Cloud and Zack were both badly wounded. They were captured by Hojo, and used for his experiments for the entire five years between the razing of Nibelheim and the beginning of the story. Cloud spent his formative years in a tank of Mako, subject to Hojo's experiments. After five years, it was Zack who initiated their escape. He had to drag Cloud out of the building, fighting ShinRa soldiers all the way. He finally got them a ride in the back of a pickup truck, going to Midgar. During the ride, Zack kept trying to talk to Cloud about what they were going to do when they got to Midgar. He didn't seem to realize that Cloud was dying--or maybe he did, and was trying to will him to live. Before they got to Midgar, they were caught by ShinRa again.

A cadre of ShinRa soldiers shot bejeezus out of Zack, then they shot him some more. And then, for good measure, they shot him some more, still. Then after a bit more shooting, they shot him a bit and then pretty much figured he was dead. They also figured that Cloud was close enough to death that he didn't matter, and they left him on the side of the road next to Zack.

Zack still had some dying to do. Before he did so, he gave Cloud the Buster Sword and told him to live for both of them. He told him to take his dreams and his hopes of being a hero; to be his legacy

Cloud took the Buster Sword. And, apparently he also took his bullet-hole-ridden, bloody clothes, which he then put on himself. He took Zack's dreams and hopes. He also took his identity.

Having convinced himself that he was SOLDIER, First Class, he made his way into Midgar on the top of a train. He ended up at the train station, hours or perhaps days after Zack's death, where Tifa found him on accident. One can only imagine what he looked like in Zack's bloody clothes, but the game shows him constantly buzzing in and out of reality as he talks to her. Cloud didn't remember his name, but by listening to Tifa talk to him, he more or less figured it out.

In the Lifestream with Tifa, he finally remembers all of this. Cloud and Tifa both come out of the Lifestream with their memories returned.

The rest of the party catches up with Cloud and Tifa. Avalanche is reunited (minus Aeris--dead,) and they go on after Sephiroth again.

Meanwhile, ShinRa has its own plan (really Scarlet's plan,) to counter Meteor. They have found something called Huge Materia, and plan to shoot Meteor down with it. They're using the old ShinRa 27--Cid's rocket--to do so.

Avalanche knows this won't work, and they get on board the rocket to try and stop the launch. However, the rocket launches with them onboard, and Cid, Cloud, and another Avalanche member (depending on who you put in the party,) end up being the first people in space after all. Cid also finds out that Shera, the woman who stopped the original launch, was actually correct in her assumptions about the poor safety of the rocket, and actually saved Cid's life.

Cid is able to re-route the rocket and get them back down to the Planet. Avalanche take the Huge materia away from ShinRa.

After that, another WEAPON arises, and is going to destroy the rest of Midgar. Avalanche heads back to stop it. They also learn that ShinRa is going to use the Junon Cannon, another or Scarlet's weapons, to destroy it. This will also destroy the entire city. Reeve tries to stop them.

Avalanche goes to fight WEAPON, ShinRa decides to use the canon anyway, and in the fray, amid the destruction in Midgar, Rufus is killed. (OR IS HE?!!1111)

Now it comes down to Avalanche and what's left of the ShinRa corporation each trying to stop Sephiroth, and also trying to stop each other from trying to stop Sephiroth. ShinRa's methods are almost as destructive as Sephiroth's plan. Also, Hojo is still afoot and he WANTS Sephiroth to succeed. This is where he admits that he is Sephiroth's father, but that Sephiroth doesn't know this. Sephiroth never finds out that he's human.

It is very much worth noting another of my favorite lines: Cloud telling Hojo, "I can't believe you're the one responsible for this. This illusionary crime against Sephiroth." Cloud is the only character in the game who has the grasp of the situation, as well as the compassion, to acknowledge that Sephiroth is the victim as much as he is the villain.

What is Cloud but someone so very much like Sephiroth, only with a group of friends to stop him from constantly succumbing to Jenova's will?

(Later, Vincent will express his hesitation about killing Sephiroth too, but not out of mercy or compassion for him. Rather because he would be killing "the son of that beloved woman." I should also add that Cloud is only tempered by mercy; he is not driven by it. He wants his revenge on Sephiroth for killing Aeris.)

Reeve, from the ShinRa building, tries to stop Hojo from helping Sephiroth. As Reeve is doing this, Cait Sith begins to act strangely. The execs at ShinRa also notice Reeve beginning to act strangely. In this scene that was butchered by the translators, we find out that Reeve has been controlling Cait Sith all the while. However, it seems that most of ShinRa was in the dark about this. (Yet Tseng knew.) When ShinRa finds that Reeve's been using Cait Sith to actually help Avalanche, Reeve is captured. However, for some reason, Cait Sith is still working with Avalanche and still helping them, and there's nothing that ShinRa can do about that. (One can assume from this that Cait Sith can also act independently of Reeve.)

Avalanche defeats Hojo. (It is satisfying, for the sake of retribution, to have Vincent in your party for this battle.)

As they chase Sephiroth, Avalanche meet up with the Turks one more time. In the game, you have the option of either fighting them or calling a truce with them.

No matter which one you choose, Scarlet and Heidegger, (Heidegger is the guy who hires out the Turks,) are still after Avalanche. Scarlet's new weapon is the Proud Clod, and Avalanche defeats it before moving on.

Sephiroth has gone to the Northern Crater to await Meteor, which no one's been able to stop yet. It ends up that Sephiroth's presence is countering Holy--remember Holy, what Aeris was praying for? As long as Sephiroth lives, Holy won't be able to do its work, and Meteor will still fall and destroy the Planet.

Avalanche finds Sephiroth waiting in the Northern Crater and they fight him there. Sephiroth transforms into a bunch of different forms: Bizarro-Sephiroth, Savior Sephiroth (or "Safer-Sephiroth" depending on your translation,) etc. This is not the power of Mako, so he must be something completely other than human by now. Since the dialog does point out that Jenova has the power to change one's physical form (hence Vincent's transformations,) we can pretty much only assume that Jenova is in control of Sephiroth.

(Has she always been? Has Sephiroth ever been in control of himself? Of his actions, or of anything? Or has Jenova been at the helm the entire time? The thing that Sephiroth and Cloud have in common is this: they are loaded with Jenova cells. Cloud has done everything that Jenova has wanted him to do when she was around, from handing the Black Materia to Sephiroth, to putting the smack down on Aeris. He very nearly wasn't able to stop himself from killing Aeris. Why would Sephiroth be any different?)

Avalanche defeats Sephiroth, and waits for Holy to come. But Meteor is already falling, so they might be too late. In the meantime, Cloud collapses again and falls into a weird limbo sort of thing. It ends up that Sephiroth, or whatever he was, has pulled Cloud into his consciousness for one last battle. This is Sephiroth in his human form. Cloud opens up a can of Omnislash and wipes out whatever of Sephiroth's consciousness was left.

Cloud awakens to find that the Northern Crater is collapsing around them. He thinks he's reaching out for Aeris, but he wakes up to find that he's reaching for Tifa, who's about to fall off the cliff. The ground gives out below Cloud just as Tifa falls, and he runs to catch her. As they both hang from the cliff, Cloud babbles something about an answer from the Planet, and says, "I think I can meet her there," meaning Aeris. It's hard to tell what's really going on here, because this scene was also botched by the translators. Tifa agrees with Cloud that they should "go meet her," but she looks heartbroken. Cloud pulls them both back up, and they see that the rest of Avalanche has also survived. Cid wishes for "Lady Luck" to be on his side, and surely enough, the Highwind comes falling into the crater, stopping just before killing them. They get into the Highwind and fly to safety.

Meanwhile, Meteor is still falling. It ends up hovering right over Midgar, destroying whatever was left of it. However, before Meteor can make its true impact, the Lifestream itself comes flying out from all over the Planet and obliterates it.

The Lifestream? But how? Who is controlling it?

The screen goes dark and then we see that aura of green-white sparks that we saw in the beginning. Aeris, surrounded by this aura, looks up and smiles; the exact same scene from the very beginning, only now we know that the green aura is the Lifestream. We hear the same three notes of music we heard the first time we saw this scene when we first put Disk 1 into Playstation and fired it up, hours, days, weeks or months ago.

And that's the end.

...Until after the credits, when we shoot to 500 years later, and we see Nanaki running through the fields with his offspring. They crest a rocky cliff and look down from it. In the distance below, we see the grass and moss covered remains of civilization, the ShinRa logo visible through the green: what used to be Midgar. After the logo and the city fade to black, we can hear the sounds of children laughing in the distance. Whether they symbolize a new civilization, or voices from the Lifestream, is left up to our interpretation.

Keep in mind, always, that most of FFVII was left up to the player's interpretation. There was a lot of freedom to make minor story-altering choices in this game, so it's likely that other people didn't get the same exact story. Also, much of the plot is left to personal interpretation, too; most of all the question of, who was the real villain? Sephiroth, Jenova, Hojo? Some combination of all of them? It's up to you to figure that out. This is just the way I saw it all when I played it. And I may or may not see it that way again the next time I play it.

The game is left open in many other ways, too. The Planet has been saved (at what cost?) and Jenova and Sephiroth have been vanquished... except for the fact that some people--most notably the hero, as well as Vincent and probably many leftover SOLDIERS--still carry her cells in their bodies. There are still Sephiroth clones. Midgar is still in ruins. The circle is not closed.

While watching Advent Children, it's interesting to note the differences between the original game and the new, stylized version of the characters and stories.

In the game, the Turks--particularly Reno--had teeth and were not afraid to show them. Reno unrepentantly blew Sector Seven to crap, killing thousands of people, and then went on his merry way. He was also gleefully drunk for much of the game.

Avalanche were as much terrorists as they were heroes. Reeve is the only one to point out the fact that in their bombing of the reactors, they also killed civilians, people who were just doing their job. Sure, those people worked for ShinRa. But didn't Cloud, at one time? And Cid? And Vincent?

Barret wasn't only a few lines of Mr. T rip-offs. He was angry, resentful, devoted to Marlene and yet conflicted about his actions, about the world, about fighting for the Planet and leaving Marlene alone so often.

Yuffie wasn't a genki-girl. She was a desperate Materia thief, ashamed of her family but proud of her heritage.

Rufus ShinRa was a spoiled bully. But his character shift is given credence by his own words in Advent Children. ^_^ Repentance and redemption, I get. ;)

Cid, Nanaki, and Cait Sith/Reeve actually had stories, emotions and personalities in the game. Reeve had an awesome character arc. But one must make allowances for time limits so it's understandable that their arcs got cut out of the movie.

Aeris was not a delicate, martyred flower or a typical damsel in distress. She was a tough chick who fought alongside the rest of them, and who didn't take crap from anyone. She was also chilly, slightly detached, fairly dispassionate and completely unforgiving as she allowed Tseng to suffer and (it seemed at the time,) die from his wounds.

Tifa is actually similar to what she was in the game: passionate, tough, devoted to her friends but willing to put the smack down when needed. If anything, she's a tougher broad in the movie than she was in the game.

Vincent more or less remains the same, too: quiet, lonely, and kind of a snarky bitch sometimes.

The biggest discrepency is Cloud. In the game, Cloud was not a sulking, guilt-ridden, pretty-angst-machine emo. (That was Vincent's job. ;D ) He was an unpredictable psycho. But he was funny, quick with one-liners, able to laugh at himself, willing to dress in full drag, vengeful, merciful, self-doubting but driven to go on. Also he was an avid snowboarder (if the player chooses to make him one,) as well as a skilled chocobo jockey. (Chocobos are giant ridiculous chicken-like creatures that you ride around the world of Final Fantasy.) He was just a total freak of nature, and he remains one of the most compelling game heroes in the history of games.

It is unfortunate that the writers of Advent Children chose to water him down. (The same thing happened to Leon Kennedy of Resident Evil 4!)



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BUT!! Advent Children is a whole different creature. It is gorgeously rendered with an awesome soundtrack, it's total eye-candy and it's a really fun ride if you let it be one. I feel free to enjoy it without reservation, because the original game is still there to play, unchanged. And because Squenix dedicated it to the fanpoodles. ;D

Should Square Enix ever decide to remake FFVII, I'm sure they will butcher it by leaving out all the best parts: Wall Market, the Wutai arc, all the random and quirky dumb little things you could do that made the game what it was. But I would still totally buy that bitch and I would play the crap out of it. Nothing can take away the original. :)

Well, that's it! I hope you enjoyed this fangirl's perspective, if indeed you managed to sit through it.

I am totally open to all discussions of interpretation! ^_^

Date: 2009-04-16 07:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] redrupee.livejournal.com
all I have to say is

AND HOW.

Date: 2009-04-16 08:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
Haha, f'reals!

I MISS YOU. When you goan' be here?

Date: 2009-04-16 08:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] redrupee.livejournal.com
Today is our last day in the Keys.

I caught a shark. O_O

Date: 2009-04-16 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
Have a safe trip home and I hope you can come over soon!

Awww, I hope you let it go. I love sharks.

Date: 2009-04-16 11:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] flufy-umbreon.livejournal.com
Okay wow, how amazing is this! I've played the game over and over again (and will continue to do so, until my playstation or game decides it's had enough - *cough* I'm already on my second copy of the game xD) and the plot's so intricate that there's always little bits that you forget. Having it all compounded like this is great! (and even greater for when I'm trying to get my friends to see what they've been missing out on for the past ten years).

Thanks so much for sharing this! (and taking the time to do it, it must've taken ages O.O)

Date: 2009-04-17 05:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
I'm so glad you like it! :) It was actually a lot of fun for me.

And I love your icon. Rufus and Dark Nation! ^_^

Date: 2009-04-17 02:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meepers-369.livejournal.com
Lol I read through a 12 page walkthrough on someone's site because I got so drawn into the game way back when AC first came out and could never get to play the game. How I wish this existed before that. :P

Date: 2009-04-17 05:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
I'm glad you like it. ^_^ I hope you manage to find a way to play the game; it's such an experience, more than a recap can really express. :)

Date: 2009-04-17 10:42 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Awww, you make me wish I had got all into Final Fantasy and stuffs!

Miss ya!



-Smoke-

Date: 2009-04-17 02:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
Hiya Princess! There's always still time. ;D Heehee.

Date: 2009-04-17 02:12 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Ah FFVII, how I wish you had been less popular and people would have been able to let you die. The compilation makes me sad, but this makes me happy. All the characters have become inoffensively bland and they've lost all of the dimensions that made me love them. Most of the FFVII cast (Barret, Cid, Aerith, Red XIII, Yuffie etc) now play second fiddle to characters who were never that important in the original. They get no love :(

Anyways, what you wrote there fills me with more happiness than moar pretty ACC fanservice ever could.

Date: 2009-04-17 02:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
What an honor! Thank you and I'm glad you enjoyed it.

I don't have any huge problem with the compilation thing--I don't really have to pay any attention to whatever I don't like and nothing can take away the original--but I agree that they're making silly cash-cow characters now, which people are peeing their pants over just because they have cool clothes. >_<

AC could have had tons more original characters and tons less silver-haired guys.

Date: 2009-04-17 04:45 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"AC could have had tons more original characters and tons less silver haired guys"

Agree 100% This doesn't appear to be something SE has rectified at all though. From what I've seen, Avalanche are getting no new screentime in ACC. All I've seen is pretty Zack stuff, he's another character I'm sick of seeing.

I don't pay attention to stuff I don't like either. CC Aerith and DoC do not exist to me lol.

Date: 2009-04-17 05:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
DoC's appeal for me was that Reeve was in it. I have always been such a ridiculous Reeve fangirl it isn't even true. Reeve getting screentime was worth the price of the game for me. ^_^

I've only seen the one trailer of ACC. It looks real pretty and I about peed my pants over it. i'm kind of like Squeenix's lapdog when it comes to FFVII though. If Cloud is in it, I'm there. ;D

Sad, sad.

Date: 2009-04-17 10:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wheatear.livejournal.com
Nice recap, it was interesting to read your interpretation!

Just a couple of things that aren't right: Tifa is 20, not 21. (She's one year younger than Cloud, while Aerith is one year older. I don't know why I always remember this.) Also, Sephiroth didn't summon Meteor until Cloud gave him the Black Materia in the Northern Crater.

Thanks for sharing!

Date: 2009-04-17 10:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
Thanks! I will go and change that now.

In the Northern Crater, I don't seem to remember that? Only because it is when Tifa and Barret are captured (when tifa wakes up) that Barret looks out the window and sees Meteor up there.

Dang, and I just played it last summer, too! O_O

I love your icon. :D

ETA: You're right, I had that stupid line in the wrong place. It is after Aeris is dead and the real Sephiroth comes back. :)
Edited Date: 2009-04-17 10:18 pm (UTC)

Date: 2009-04-17 10:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wheatear.livejournal.com
Yep, in the Northern Crater, when Cloud gives the Black Materia to Sephiroth and Hojo is all giggling and ecstatic about the Reunion, it's Tifa who says that now Sephiroth has summoned Meteor. "Every single person is going to die!"

Then they're captured, and when Tifa wakes up, there's Meteor in the sky.

(Is it sad that I know all this without having to look it up? :P)

And thanks, I like it too. :)

Date: 2009-04-17 10:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
Hehe, I don't find it sad at all; you're talking to the person who wrote this thing. :) I think it's neat.

Incidentally, that is one of my favorite scenes in Cloud's character arc. Check it out: in this scene he turns his back on everyone and begs Hojo for a project number. It's so sad and desperate!

Then later, during the fight with Hojo, Hojo calls him "the failure" and Cloud insists, "At least remember my name! It's Cloud!"

What a rebound! ^_^

Date: 2009-04-17 10:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wheatear.livejournal.com
Oh, yeah, such a great moment. It's... I was going to say his lowest point, but I think being reduced to a babbling wreck in a wheelchair probably beats that. :P I love the emotional journey Cloud goes through. One of the great things about FFVII is how all the characters develop and change.

Date: 2009-04-17 10:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
Oh my gosh,t he wheelchair scene. It was so shocking. But I think that Cloud's lowest point is probably nearly killing Aeris. Aside from that, begging Hojo. Only because when he's in the wheelchair, it's not due to his own issues, but rather physical poisoning.

Either way, his arc is so huge and deep, he's just such a great character to dissect. ;) (Hojo thought so, too. ;D )

Date: 2009-04-17 10:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wheatear.livejournal.com
That too! Poor Cloud. No wonder he has Issues. :P

Date: 2009-04-18 02:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ahvia.livejournal.com
I haven't read through all your summary yet, but I gotta say:

I feel free to enjoy it without reservation, because the original game is still there to play, unchanged. And because Squenix dedicated it to the fanpoodles. ;D

thank you for being one of these people!
This is exactly how I feel about the compilation and I feel super isolated from most other "hardcore" fans because of it, but I also can't stand Compilation only fans for obvious reasons. ;A;
FF7 is always FF7, and the new stuff is just new stuff, made because we loved it so much. *A*

(But lol, I'll be really surprised if the fandom is actually influenced by MCR in any noticeable way like people seem to think.)

Date: 2009-04-18 02:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
Yeah, that's just it! I do wish that AC had let Cloud be more Cloudy and the other characters more like their original selves. But when I wish for Old School Cloud, I fire up the PS2 and plug him in, problem solved. :)

AC is pretty, the soundtrack is the bomb, and I stick that movie in the old DVD player once in a while because Bahamut Sin is just aces. ^_^

Oh, I already saw one fic which had a header just as I described. >_< Plus, I liked "Calling" and I just don't think they need this. Grr.

Also I love your icon! So many cool icons in this post.

Date: 2009-04-18 04:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paperclipchains.livejournal.com
I loooove your icon.

Date: 2009-04-18 04:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paperclipchains.livejournal.com
You have your facts wrong here and there, but you point out a few things I didn't notice.. I'm due for a replay, heh.

I'd say where I really disagree with you is the idea that Jenova is in control of Sephiroth, Cloud, and everyone.. I've done a lot of thinking on that particular subject because it's of great interest to me. In the game, there's much to-do about Sephiroth's will. In some ways, I think that fans have a tendency to overvictimize him - yes, he is a victim in the same way that Cloud is a victim, but I don't think he was a victim of fate. He chose his path. Actually, I wrote about that on the ff7_oldschool comm a while back, but moving on...

I think it's important to remember the extent to which Sephiroth and Jenova are the same. I don't think it's really inaccurate to call her his mother - he was developed with her cells, surely it's a huge part of him. And while I don't think he has ever been a puppet in the way that Cloud was, it's hard to say that he really was in complete control at all times, too. Surely he feels her influence, if nothing else - the ideas that he comes up with in the Nibelheim library are incredibly outlandish and I think it's highly suspect to say that she had no hand in developing them. On the other hand, Sephiroth has a huge amount of Jenova's cells, and Jenova is a parasite. Is it possible that what he terms "godhood" is a biological imperitive for the large chunk of his DNA that comes from a planetary parasite? Is it possible that the existence of human and Jenova cells in one body made him destined for breakdown from day one?

I don't know. I see as many parallels to Aeris as I do to Cloud in this case - half human, half other. Like Cloud, Sephiroth rejects his identity and constructs a new one. Aeris resolves hers, dies as an ancient, and returns victorious. It's interesting then that she is the first to point out something wrong with Cloud, who also discovers and accepts himself eventually.

I guess I haven't really answered the question, but to me, "Jenova is in control" is just much too simple.


SO YEAH I LOVE THIS GAME AND I LOVE TO YAMMER ABOUT IT

Date: 2009-04-18 08:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
Please feel free to correct those facts, and I will make appropriate corrections.

Oh man, you have no idea how gleeful I am to discuss this kind of character dissection.

First I have to tell you I'm a somewhat shameless Sephiroth apologist. And honestly, this is where playing CC is sort of gratifying to me. He's chilly (like Aeris can be) and kind of a bastard but he's not cruel.

On the other hand I don't like to take away his teeth, because he--like Cloud--is capable of (and responsible for) great destruction as well, and disregard for human life. (And everyone in Avalanche is, too; they just justify their reasons differently.)

Like Cloud, Sephiroth rejects his identity and constructs a new one. Aeris resolves hers, dies as an ancient, and returns victorious.

BUT! Being an Ancient is not a bad thing. Perhaps lonely (I wrote a fic about that once, about Aerith's outreness and how it might make her feel detached from the rest :D ) but not a bad thing. It's interesting that Sephiroth thinks that Jenova is an Ancient for a while. I'm not clear on if he ever finds out the truth of what she is.

And while I don't think he has ever been a puppet in the way that Cloud was, it's hard to say that he really was in complete control at all times, too.

I actually think he's more of a puppet. Cloud in the end retains (or regains) his identity. I think that Sephiroth has none other than what's been given to him. His past isn't too clear; I have always just thought he was raised by ShinRa. Perhaps by Hojo? I really don't know. But we do know that he never finds out who his parents were.

It's safe to say that he's really everyone else's brainchild, and that he has no ego. (I don't mean "ego" in the sense of "smugness" but rather in the Freudian sense.)

Sephiroth was an empty vessel with the potential for heroism, which instead was filled with delusions.

Is it possible that what he terms "godhood" is a biological imperitive for the large chunk of his DNA that comes from a planetary parasite?

Yes, this! That could very well be, too. I think he almost comes close to confessing that as well, too. ("I always thought I was special. But not like this.")

Also, keep in mind that when I say "Jenova is in control" I don't mean that she's inhabiting his body, and that there is no Sephiroth. He is in there, and you're right, he does choose his path. They all chose their paths; that's what is so remarkable.

But Cloud (and Aerith) and the rest are all much stronger. Even Cloud, the most royally effed up identity crisis character, ends up being mentally stronger. He throws of his illusions and fights Jenova.

Sephiroth just gives himself to her. So yes; while he did make the decision to believe the lie that Jenova "deserved" the Planet, he had so much less of a choice, and so much less of a chance, than any of the other characters.

It's so great that I'm getting responses like this. This is my idea of fun. ^_^

I'll factcheck for you later!

Date: 2009-04-19 08:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paperclipchains.livejournal.com
First I have to tell you I'm a somewhat shameless Sephiroth apologist. And honestly, this is where playing CC is sort of gratifying to me. He's chilly (like Aeris can be) and kind of a bastard but he's not cruel.

I thought Sephiroth was the best characterization from CC, generally speaking, and all my complaints are nitpicking. He's a little softer, but it's easy to excuse since he's always in familiar territory. But yeah, I guess I'm not really an "apologist," but I am a bit of a fangirl and so I used to be. I like his character and my approach is never to just forgive him but to do justice to his struggle as much as every other character's.

BUT! Being an Ancient is not a bad thing.

No, being an Ancient is not a bad thing, but not making SOLDIER isn't that bad either, if you see what I'm saying. It was hard for her to be an Ancient, it was hard for her to be alone, and it was hard for her to know what to do with herself. Cloud and Sephiroth both struggle with who they are in different ways, but on the whole I think she's most successful.

I actually think he's more of a puppet. Cloud in the end retains (or regains) his identity. I think that Sephiroth has none other than what's been given to him. His past isn't too clear; I have always just thought he was raised by ShinRa. Perhaps by Hojo? I really don't know. But we do know that he never finds out who his parents were.

This isn't necessarily true... Refer back to what you said earlier about how he thinks he's an Ancient. He never really... resolves his identity with himself, I guess. He finds out he's a "monster" and how he deals with is the creation of this elaborate fantasy that puts him on an even higher throne than he was already on, because he just can't deal with it.

It's safe to say that he's really everyone else's brainchild, and that he has no ego. (I don't mean "ego" in the sense of "smugness" but rather in the Freudian sense.)

Sephiroth was an empty vessel with the potential for heroism, which instead was filled with delusions.


I kind of agree with this. I don't think he's literally controlled by Jenova in the way that Cloud is, but if you look at this long line of events, you can see that he winds up playing right into Hojo's plan for him. It's almost ironic and a bit sad that he is so often described as a man with tremendous power of will but he's still been following somebody else's plan for him his whole life. I'm not sure that is to say that he has no ego, but I think we can see what was him start to vanish in Nibelheim.

Also, keep in mind that when I say "Jenova is in control" I don't mean that she's inhabiting his body, and that there is no Sephiroth. He is in there, and you're right, he does choose his path. They all chose their paths; that's what is so remarkable.

But Cloud (and Aerith) and the rest are all much stronger. Even Cloud, the most royally effed up identity crisis character, ends up being mentally stronger. He throws of his illusions and fights Jenova.

Sephiroth just gives himself to her. So yes; while he did make the decision to believe the lie that Jenova "deserved" the Planet, he had so much less of a choice, and so much less of a chance, than any of the other characters.


But how can you be sure he gives himself to her? I think, for me, I try to think of her relationship to him as though she were his actual mother because it's conceptually useful - while your mother can't literally control you, she can suggest you and steer you. I think that's sort of what happened with him, and he turned to her when he was trying to forge an active destiny for himself. I think a lot of what Seph says is just blowing hot air - he's angry and upset first and foremost, but he needs some justification and rationalization, so he fills in the gaps later, and Jenova is incredibly useful to him in that right. In a way, she tells him what he wants to hear and lets him make his own reality, where everyone in the world has wronged him and is undeserving.

I went over the character limit...

Date: 2009-04-19 08:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paperclipchains.livejournal.com
The question I always wind up at is "Well, can he be fixed?" I know Squeenix is never going to go that route because they need a villain and so continue to push him down the vendetta path, but it's interesting to wonder. I think that at the end of the day, if he decided to snap out of it and throw off Jenova, he could do it with probably less of a problem than Cloud - but then, I'm not sure, since Jenova's so much more a physiological part of him than she was for Cloud.

Sigh, so many unanswered questions...


... so what are your thoughts on Aeris?

Re: I went over the character limit...

Date: 2009-04-19 09:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
Snap, I went over, too. ^_^


The question I always wind up at is "Well, can he be fixed?" I know Squeenix is never going to go that route because they need a villain and so continue to push him down the vendetta path, but it's interesting to wonder.

Dang, one of my retardedly long fics was about that, many many years ago, before AC or Compilation was a dollar sign in Squenix's eye. :) I wrote the damn thing, but in retrospect I kinda feel like I don't want him to be fixed. I like him arrogant, showing his teeth and sneering Cloud's name. I like Cloud's pity for him, too.

... so what are your thoughts on Aeris?

Hehe, I have a fic about that, too. My thought is really that she is--like you said--similar to Sephiroth in a lot of ways. Not just with her struggles but also in her tendencies. She's noble, but she can also be very chilly.

And I also agree that she is the one with the true victory at the end. :)

Re: I went over the character limit...

Date: 2009-04-20 12:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paperclipchains.livejournal.com
I actually never felt that Cloud had any pity for him. In fact, one thing that annoyed me about Cloud is that he never seemed to acknowledge victimization outside of himself. I don't necessarily want him "fixed" (and I think he's probably in too deep anyway), but it's interesting to think about. I never really saw him as particularly bitter or sneering towards Cloud, only concerned with him to the extent that he was useful... But he's kind of obsessed with the poor boy in the compilation in a way that is probably-not-entirely-accidental-but-bordering homoerotic!

I love me some Aeris. I don't think I have anything to say about her that isn't gushing, though, so I'll just say I am pleased that you are in agreement. =)

Re: I went over the character limit...

Date: 2009-04-20 01:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
I actually never felt that Cloud had any pity for him. In fact, one thing that annoyed me about Cloud is that he never seemed to acknowledge victimization outside of himself.

Oh, but he was the only one who did! He calls Hojo out on his crime against Sephiroth. It seemed to me then that he got it, when everyone else missed it. That is one of my favorite lines in the game. :)

Aside from in the original, he says in AC that he pities him, too. He says it heatedly, during their fight, but I still believe it. ;)

I never really saw him as particularly bitter or sneering towards Cloud, only concerned with him to the extent that he was useful... But he's kind of obsessed with the poor boy in the compilation in a way that is probably-not-entirely-accidental-but-bordering homoerotic!

Oh, I was actually thinking about AC when I wrote that rather than the original. He sneers his name through the whole thing. "Kuraudo." Like a little bitch. Actually he seemed a little sneery in the scene in the library too, now that I think of it, in the original. Although, perhaps more "out of his frigging mind" than "sneery." :)

Yeah, you know I'm not sure how much yaoi fanservice pandering Squeenix was doing, but Sephiroth does seem pretty obsessed with Cloud in AC. It's not only about him "sailing the universe with the Planet as his vessel" etc. blah blah, which actually seemed a little halfhearted TBH, but rather something personal. As if he came back for Cloud, and not for his "goal."

I love me some Aeris. I don't think I have anything to say about her that isn't gushing, though, so I'll just say I am pleased that you are in agreement. =)

You can gush; I won't mind. :)

I'm going to continue your other comment here and maybe I won't run over. ;)

I don't necessarily agree that he was the weakest of the lot... I think that's putting it in too uncertain terms.

Who would you think was the weakest? In terms of major characters I mean.

I have always felt that Aeris wasn't the tragedy of the game: she was its victory and perhaps even the true hero. Cloud has a huge journey and, yeah, he is the hero, but her journey is so much more expansive (she dies,) and without her, there would be nothing left anyway.

Sephiroth's journey is nihilistic: he learns nothing, he gains nothing. But in that it could have been prevented had he the strength and the emotional and mental resources to go down a different road, that, to me, is the real tragedy of the game. Because in all, it is not a happy story.

(Tangentially, my favorite character journey outside of Cloud's is Reeve's. God I love that character and I wish he'd had more time in the series.)

When you're raised by the military and you never get to do anything else, what are your options when they betray you? What can you really do with yourself when your entire life is a lie? I guess I can see what you mean by "weakness," but then it's hard to say whether or not he ever had the building blocks he needed to develop the strength to keep going and keep hope after a blow like that.

Yeah, totally! I think we agree on that for sure.

fftarot has a drabble on him under "The Magician" and it's probably one of the most interesting and thought-provoking pieces on his character that I've ever read.

That was fantastic; I read quite a few of those. Very nice! Thank you for the link. :)
Edited Date: 2009-04-20 01:04 am (UTC)

Re: I went over the character limit...

Date: 2009-04-20 02:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paperclipchains.livejournal.com
No problem, glad I have someone to share them with!

I guess I just object to the idea of "weakness," because while maybe that's objectively true, I have a hard time really saying that his inability to deal is his own failing. I definitely agree with you about tragedy/victory. I think that both Cloud and Aeris are taking the hero's journey here. Cloud's is more traditional, I guess, and Aeris' is messianic.

Can I ask what you find interesting about Reeve? I tend to gloss over the talking cat.

Re: I went over the character limit...

Date: 2009-04-20 04:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
Oh man, I think we have a semi-similar view of Sephiroth, but differing on how much is his own weakness and how much could have been prevented? Either way, how fascinating, and this conversation has put a smile on my face every time I check my comments.

Ahhh, Reeve. You know, it's funny, I wasn't fond of Cait Sith until the part in the game when he stole the keystone. Then I said, "Hmmm!" I always have a soft spot for characters with duality, and Reeve has it in spades. Not only does he play both sides nearly until the end when he gets caught (and more importantly, he sees both sides,) but more metaphorically he's two characters in one.

Then I wondered: did he build Cait Sith? And to what end? Was it Cait Sith's original purpose to be a spy? Does Cait Sith occasionally have autonomy? (And AC and DoC seem to suggest that it does.) What kind of nerd geek / crazy person would design a talking robotic cat with a crown, and sit it on top of a mog? It was the most innocuous and seemingly pointless character in the game, and then damn, it ended up being a ShinRa exec. (I still never put him in my party though, because while I loved Reeve, I found Cait Sith freaking irritating.)

I also particularly fangirl over any character that has a change of heart, or that redeems him or herself. And Reeve just came so far.











And umm the blue suit. ;)

Re: I'll factcheck for you later!

Date: 2009-04-19 09:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shonagonchan.livejournal.com
I thought Sephiroth was the best characterization from CC, generally speaking, and all my complaints are nitpicking.

I get that. ^_^ I'll tell you, the part I just played was meaningful to me. It's when Genesis gets injured and needs a transfusion and Sephiroth is offering his blood to help, but Hollander tells him he's not suitable and he's all, "but why?" Man, I felt so bad for him then. :)

I like his character and my approach is never to just forgive him but to do justice to his struggle as much as every other character's.

Oh yes, absolutely! The things he does are terrible! It's just that Cloud does some of the same things. The only real difference I can fathom is that Cloud has had a true past. Troubled, yes. But he had a mother, and he has people who care about him. I think it's possible that Sephiroth's entire life has been ShinRa. I just don't feel he had a chance to equip himself against an onslaught of his personal reality; constructed by the man who constructed him.

ETA! I'm just thinking, how much of this did Hojo or ShinRa construct? Why did they send Sephiroth to that reactor with the Jenova monsters in the first place? Hmm.

No, being an Ancient is not a bad thing, but not making SOLDIER isn't that bad either, if you see what I'm saying. It was hard for her to be an Ancient, it was hard for her to be alone, and it was hard for her to know what to do with herself. Cloud and Sephiroth both struggle with who they are in different ways, but on the whole I think she's most successful.

I agree that it's likely that Aeris is the most powerful character in the whole game. In the end, the victory is hers.

He finds out he's a "monster" and how he deals with is the creation of this elaborate fantasy that puts him on an even higher throne than he was already on, because he just can't deal with it.

Yet his "Ancient" delusion comes only after he's read the mistaken ShinRa files about Jenova. I wonder what would have happened if the files had been correct and said straight up, "Jenova is a parasite from space. We used her to make monsters and eventually we got Sephiroth" or something like that. I wonder what he would have done then? Because he has tried, up until then, to do what was honorable--or what he felt was honorable.

It's almost ironic and a bit sad that he is so often described as a man with tremendous power of will but he's still been following somebody else's plan for him his whole life.

Oh my gosh, I agree so completely actually. This is why I say that I think he's the weakest character out of the lot. Created and controlled from the start. Perhaps his "Well then I'll just kill everything!" is the only way he knew how to try to take control of his own destiny; to to the most irrational thing in order to break free. In the meantime, I wonder what Hojo's plan was in the first place? Did he mean for his son to grow up to try to destroy the world? Or was he just like, "Oh, well now that he's doing that, cool! I'll help."

Wow, just some theories I never thought about before. :)

But how can you be sure he gives himself to her?

Well, one really can't. The whole thing is wide open to interpretation. The retrofitting in CC seems to suggest that Sephiroth had some semblance of honor, some unironic, well-meaning noblesse oblige, at least. So I kind of like to think that he had great potential until he cracked, and then when he cracked, Jenova just filled up the spaces. That she filled the gaps. She was already in his body and in his mind. I think the fact that she tries to do the same with Cloud, but that he is so much stronger than Sephiroth, is such a lovely tragedy. :)
Edited Date: 2009-04-19 10:24 pm (UTC)

Re: I'll factcheck for you later!

Date: 2009-04-20 12:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paperclipchains.livejournal.com
I don't necessarily agree that he was the weakest of the lot... I think that's putting it in too uncertain terms. I don't really think of him as weak so much as I think of him as trapped - and more than that, as angry. When you're raised by the military and you never get to do anything else, what are your options when they betray you? What can you really do with yourself when your entire life is a lie? I guess I can see what you mean by "weakness," but then it's hard to say whether or not he ever had the building blocks he needed to develop the strength to keep going and keep hope after a blow like that.

[livejournal.com profile] fftarot has a drabble on him under "The Magician" and it's probably one of the most interesting and thought-provoking pieces on his character that I've ever read.

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